vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
117339-pvp-leaderboard-update
Content ---- ---- Hi Tony. I'm going to go ahead and quote you on this : We’ve listened to your feedback; Have you though, really? Those of us on the leaderboards know just how WORTHLESS they truly are. It's good that you've taken them down, but not because of how poorly implemented they are.... but because they're invalid. When you post the 5v5 leaderboards, you post wintraders, period. NO ONE plays it, people only wintrade it. I know you don't actually play this game, but some of us do. There is no point in having leaderboards, until you listen to our feedback, and that's fix the stupid system. I think it's really nice that you're going to have an interactive leaderboard that lets us check it and see how our ranks go up. I don't think its nice that you're missing the point. Of all the things you can choose to comment on given the state of PvP, I'm sorely depressed that it has anything to do with the word leaderboards in it. I mean really, level with us here. What are you even thinking about? Are you aware that there is no integrity in the system, whatsoever? Are you aware that there's no point in having a rating wipe until the core issues are fixed? Are you aware that rating is trivial in the current system? It's not an indicator of how well other people do against others, its an arbitrary goal number used to encourage people to cheat to a specific point, then quit pvping altogether until they've sufficiently RNG farmed. Tony, seriously, DO YOUR JOB AND LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS. I'm so tired of having to go back and forth with a company that screams, "The Devs are Listening," but doesn't even have a clue as to what's going on. Do you really not get paid enough to care? Let me direct you to the PvP forums, where there are plenty of valid concerns to view and comment: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/forum/36-pvp/ | |} ---- I'm sorry, keep your standards high? This game's PvP has been riddled with exploits, win trading, elo-boosting, tanking down to 100 rating and queuing with an 1800 to face only low rated teams, even straight up HACKS in arena (chargeshot spam hack), ridiculous imbalance in the old PvP 1200 and 1800 gear, and that's just the stuff I can immediately call to mind in this heated moment. When have standards ever been high that you'd like to maintain them? It is so hard to man up and admit you guys have fallen short of delivering a quality environment for the PvP crowd? Almost nothing, SINCE LAUNCH, has been working the way it should. You say you'd like to make sure you're doing things the right way....how is postponing PvP leaderboards doing that exactly? Are you worried about the masses of win-traders (who are inactive in the leaderboards, just sitting at the top with their 2200+ ratings) are making the game look bad? Is that it? If so, why in the world did you release leaderboards in the first place? Nothing has changed since you released them..in fact, the first leaderboard release had a guy with something like 4200 rating. Obviously the staff member who posted that leaderboards saw that and what did he think of it? Was it normal? Everyone at 2500 rating, one guy randomly 95% win rate at 4200 rating...yeah, let's post the leaderboards anyway with him on there. I mean it's as if you guys really didn't care how the leaderboards portrayed the game at all, but now you suddenly do? I liked the leaderboards. I used them as a means to find people to play with. Once I transferred over to PvE after being on Pergo since launch, it took me 2 weeks of searching until I found TWO people above 1500 (through looking at names on leaderboards for one guy, and randomly inspecting players in Thayd for the other guy). I'm not too concerned about the lack of PvPers on the PvE server, that's not my point - my point was, the leaderboards were pretty useful to someone like me and I actually liked watching myself climb and also seeing new names popup in the 2k+ bracket. But to maintain high standards, you're removing them. If you're going to reply to this part of my post, respond to this question - What exactly is removing leaderboards going to do to improve the PvP environment of this game? Oh, is that so? Hmm...could you perhaps point me to some posts where people are asking for leaderboards to be removed, perhaps a post with valid justification? Uh, nevermind, none exist, let's not even bother trying to look for any. You guys have NOT listened to our feedback - nobody has given feedback of "remove leaderboards, it's the biggest problem in PvP!!". Come the *cupcake*on man. Except you already have this on your side. You think we're all clueless? Some developers have already posted on these forums that you have this sort of system already existing that you yourself can monitor. Let's assume I'm wrong (for your sake)...how hard could it be to code up something that queries a database and displays the results in a table? Honestly, how hard do you think it is? I'm not going to assume you're a developer, but I am, so let me tell you that I could make a nice looking page with formatted data that has everything anyone would want to see in a leaderboard, and I could do it in under an hour. Not because I'm some professional, but because it's easy as shit. A few simple queries to dump all the data from the database, then parse it, then display it...just as you guys have been exporting them to CSV files, you can grab that data with a simple PHP script and display it just as easily. It's so easy to make this and automate it and have it being updated interactively, it makes no sense why it's been 5 months and it still doesn't exist and you guys have been manually exporting data to CSV files and putting them up for downloads...jesus. What in the world is this supposed to mean? Switching your bandwidth - do you mean your man-power? How in the world was it taking up a significant amount of resources to export data into a CSV file and upload them? Why is this leaderboards page being worked on now when it's been something that could have been released WITH THE GAME? Better yet, why are resources being devoted to that when so many more major problems exist in the PvP environment? If this is such an arduous task, shouldn't efforts be devoted places other than coding up a webpage? I mean honestly, if it's that difficult and time consuming, I'd rather have the person who is given the 1 month to code a single page stop what he's doing and spend that month brainstorming ways to prevent win trading and tanking and what have you. In the end, this post has just shown more and more how disconnected Carbine is from the PvP aspect of this game. Every single change you guys have done has been contrary to what the real PvPers know to be the better way to go about things. Just writing that last sentence reminded me of the great idea you guys had of randomizing rune slots...I mean in what world was that ever a good idea? Things were fine the way they were, why introduce a secondary grind? Nobody enjoys farming prestige. Do you know what the outcome was of you guys doing what you did? It definitely wasn't more battleground queue pops. No. It was people figuring out how to exploit Halls of Bloodsworn to get 5k prestige per game then getting their min-maxed rune slot gear and playing your system. That was the only outcome of your random rune slot BS. NOBODY asked for that random rune crap on PvP gear. NOBODY. Literally zero people. You cannot find a single person that said "Guys, I love this game, I wish you would remove the already great slots on the PvP gear and make them random so I have to grind for them and waste hours trying to get good rolls." For some reason this idea of "NOBODY SAID THAT" cannot get through to you guys, and you keep repeating that you're "listening", so I'm just going to repeat it a few more times maybe it will stick. NOBODY ASKED FOR RANDOM RUNE SLOTS. So again I ask - HOW are you listening? | |} ---- ---- Thank you tony for the update. I am looking forward to seeing what the new leaderboard is going to be like. In terms everyone else being a total boob right now. Please remember that carbine is going through a restructure its going to take time for them to get everything in order. Tony would it be possible to get any form of update on the PvP side of things? A lot of us are really trying to hold on to the last bit of breath we have for the PvP side of things. I know its coming but any kind of update for the PvP community would be greatly welcome :D Happy Halloween! | |} ---- ---- 100% agree. Positivity always is the correct way to go. If you want to give feedback then do it in a constructive way please. | |} ---- ---- Are you serious ? Are you sure you're playing the same game ? It's not because you're not on the leaderboard that others are cheaters ... you are so embittered :rolleyes: | |} ---- ---- Explain what ? I have 13 years of MMORPG behind me. So guilty of what ? I'm sorry to have more gameplay than you :rolleyes: | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- So if disabling leader boards is keeping your standards high...... then you're clearly blind. You have ignored the PVPer's and left this game for dead. There's no reason for me to login and play anymore.... Why should I waste my time on a game that's going to die sooner or later? Since the dev's can't make up their minds and screw everything up. It'd be nice to take care of the actual issues, and focus on getting drop 3 out (like it was supposed to be 2 months ago). Carbine is just delaying the inevitable of it's game dying off. I'd just like to recopy this above quote as well..... if I had implemented a slogan and did not follow it... I'd be out of business too. moderator edit: language Edited November 1, 2014 by Chillia | |} ---- ---- I am just going tho throw this out there, and you can take it as you wish. Based on the type of responses you guys in the thread are giving, I wouldn't want to talk to you long enough to ask your opinion either. Obviously the long rant posts calling everyone and their mother silly or the obvious disregard of respect are not working out for you... Edited November 20, 2014 by BusterCasey | |} ---- Well said mate. This is why not being an ass in the community helps your feedback get noticed. Being an ass normally lands you on the block list or banned if you go to far. I really encourage everyone to bring their feedback in a constructive and professional manner. It will get noticed a lot more and get more dev replies if you do so. | |} ---- ya man only thing changing on pvp leaderboards was the win traders in 3s... lol | |} ---- Simply responding to absurdity in kind. Guys, we gave them 6 months + of constructive feedback. We designed / outlined systems, gave constructive feedback, and spoke to them as professionals. This is where we're at, as they've disregarded all of those things. You can call me / us names all you want, but it doesn't change the truth, regardless of how I / we deliver it. They're FAILING MISERABLY at their jobs. I'm sorry if we're tired of seeing our well-mannered posts ignored and this game spiral into an even worse state than at launch. I'm sorry that we're seeing the same issues 6 months down the road with no clear acknowledgement / plans to fix them. This is a VERY unprofessional gaming studio, and thus they will be treated like so. Their community managers don't relay the proper messages. Their developers disregard any useful feedback, they don't meet deadlines, and their product is failing miserably. So you say these guys should rant less about XX so they're more likely to have a conversation with, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? These are the guys that know the ins and outs of Wildstar PvP. 2 of the people with very negative feedback here are 2 of THE BEST players to consult for PvP matters. So I'll hear your advice to be nice to these guys so we don't hurt their feelings, but I'll say what's the point. Being nice hasn't had anything done for 6 months and there's barely enough people to queue practice battlegrounds in primetime. Being nice gets 0 responses / memes from the developers. I'll take being truthful and being honest, in whatever manner of delivery, over politely saying they're doing a horrible job, anyday. After all, the subs don't lie. Courteous feedback is not the avenue to take with Carbine Studios, as they'll just let you down more and more. | |} ---- How do you know relay the messages? With the layoffs and all the things happening right now, there isn't going to be much content that comes out for PvP. Their focus is getting drop 3 out and then most likely focusing on PvP. Game has only been out for 5 months, carbine is going through restructuring, Drop 3 is coming. If we don't see major changes after drop 3 for PvP then I will start making a bigger deal out of not seeing PvP changes. My only guess is that the layoffs and restructure has been happening from drop 2, so everything is not moving forward right now till they get the devs in the correct places. All the feedback that we have been given is most likely being stalled because of the layoffs. I am just as frustrated as you are, that doesn't give me the right to be a *cupcake*. The best call is to speak with your wallet and unsub till you see changes you like. The devs are listening, feedback is being looked at. I know its frustrating just hang in there. Again speak with your wallet unsub and come back when you see things improving to where you are happy. | |} ---- I know you're new to the wildstar scene, and you think that you're "in the know" and "with it" since you do a little youtube channel about Wildstar. You are the king of speculation. Uneducated, uninformed speculation. I've seen your youtube videos and its a total waste of time as you do nothing but regurgitate useless information. Which is exactly what all of your post is, regurgitating useless information. \ Please Bazeleel, just stop. Stop making excuses for a "professional" studio. Stop trying to explain something you have virtually no knowledge about. Do you work for Carbine? If not--- don't try to speak for them. They have forum accounts. They're paid to show that "they're listening." People like you are the ultimate bane of Wildstar. People that want to profit (through youtube) or pretend to be at a place of authority on a forum. You need to learn to hold accountable adults for their decisions, and hold people to their word. When a studio as a whole lies / doesn't deliver, they gain a bad reputation. You might not see it through your blinders, but some of us do. Bad results and bad reputation means this game and the studio ultimately "die," and thus never reach their true potential. Success isn't measured in the excuses a company makes for their problems, but the results that they show for their hard work. Right now, the results are negative. Finally, your timeline is warped. Remember the scope of these posts and understand that you can't just excuse their incongruity with something that has happened in the last month etc. There are problems that have been talked about since launch that still aren't addressed. BIG problems. There is no visible dev cycle. There is no "in development / coming up / in the works list for the players to see," There is no structure, nor any reliability. You compare this studio to something like FFXIV's developers, or WoWs, or Arena NET, or just about anyone else, and you can see just how unprofessional they truly are. I'm all for the underdog, but when the underdog lets you down, then slaps you in the face with drop 2 changes / drop 3 changes, well... you see the idea. | |} ---- Comments like this is why people can't be bothered to read things that you type. Your snide/back handed comments are not welcome by anyone, let alone a company like CRB. I understand you and several others have given feedback, but you do not seem to realize that there are a million and 1 other aspects of the game that need tweaking as well. I won't come here and say other aspects of the game are more important to CRB than PvP, because neither you or I know where PvP rates on their scale of importance. Through what going on right now at NCSoft that is definitely affecting CRB directly, you need to just chill out and wait. It is a new MMO and the suggestions you are asking for take MONTHSSSS of dev time and resources to pull off even if they didn't have other aspects of the game to work on (which obviously, they do). Just in terms of reworking, PvP has received more attention than other aspects of the game already, in case you didn't notice. Content on the other hand, obviously PvE wins the cake on that, but it still shows things are being worked on and considered for you. Take a step back and realize they are listening, and your negative comments and banter are not warranted or wanted by anyone. If you don't like it, then unsub until you see changes you like or find another way to positively reinforce your thoughts without coming across as a major D-bag. | |} ---- The suggestions we are asking for take very little time comparatively. They're also direct responses to changes that weren't asked for and have made people leave in droves. Keep in mind the scope of this particular post. You guys are saying "bla bla bla things take time, be patient, can't change everytime," in a post where Carbine has announced that they're REMOVING leaderboards until they can be something worthwhile. It's like they're entirely out of touch. Which is the whole premise of this post. Seriously guys, you will white knight every single thing that comes out of CRB if given the opportunity. Don't make this about Eclips, make this about CRB, PvP Leaderboard Update, and just how well Carbine does at sticking to their word / listening to the playerbase. | |} ---- So they are working on making PvP a little more engaging and want to do it correctly by implementing real time leaderboards, yet you are upset about it and are saying that CRB isn't doing anything at all with PvP at all. I see..... Normal people would look at it and be like "ALRIGHT!" CRB is at least looking PvP (regardless of what aspect of PvP it covers) and be excited at least something is being done rather than a "we will take a look at it 3 months down the road" response that you could have gotten. They have a small team overall, and I assume anyone designated to work on anything PvP is SUPER small. Can you imagine the pile of suggestions that a player base of thousands have sent in to a team of a handful of people to sort through and listen to, and then to test implementation on after designing it would take? Because if you could, then you might start to understand why attitude and snide remarks won't get you anywhere with CRB let alone the community who want similar things. | |} ---- You are so far off the mark. You need to re-read the posts here for content. People are blasting Carbine so hard because what they see coming from CRB is ridiculous and absurd. Whether they say it in a mean way or not, doesn't take away from the content of the post. Tony's whole post: completely out of touch with the game. Just like your post is out of touch with the topic at hand. I guess from the outside looking in, you might see a bunch of jerks ranting on Tony, but from the inside looking out--- this is pretty gentle and constructive. There are so many things that I want to say regarding CRB and their ineptitude, but I don't because its not productive. These posts--- they're productive. Mean, but productive. | |} ---- ---- The point of these posts is leaderboards (working, live, accurate in terms win-trading etc.) won't change anything for the average PVP player, having them or not won't make a dent in overall PVP participation (which is the biggest problem with PVP currently). The fact that they are even spending any time on such a non-issue, and announcing it on the forum, is frustrating. I doubt you would be happy if Timetravel came out and said "Hey guys, we won't talk about (or do anything about) any bug fixes or new content for the next month, but don't worry based on community feedback we are going to suspend Server first achievments/announcements for a bit and make sure to reintroduce them in an accurate live form." The thing is, group PVE is so good in this game, that you might give him a pass. The same can't be said about the current state of PVP. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- looks like people care to me. othewise my leaderboards post would be dead. | |} ---- I know I was being sarcastic there ;) We were upset that they were talking about leaderboards / taking them away when there were SO many things they could talk to us about with PvP. | |} ---- ---- Consider Muffinman's plans as garbage. Timetravel and Meerkat have taken over. There are multiple threads in the PvP forums that they have given feedback in. Check out the "I'm the new ... owner", "Constructive Input" thread has a lot of replies, Ameliorating I think has some in there. And the Townhall thread states that they should have some decisions for us by January. | |} ---- True Muffinman's not around anymore, but his plans haven't been tossed out. Thanks for your direction, I went and read the threads you mentioned. The things I was asking about are still on the table. But I'm more caught up now, thanks. :) I look forward to hearing more at the town hall meeting. | |} ---- ---- "In an effort to keep our standards high, and make sure we’re doing things the right way, we’re temporarily postponing PvP Leaderboards. " i still lol. While our old leaderboards were kind of underwhelming they were still functional. Honestly it made no sense to take them down until they had a replacement anyway (unless you're just trying to hide how bad the pvp situation in your game is) Still leaderboards were such low and still are so low priority it doesn't matter if they put out amazing leaderboards to show the mabye 20 2's teams in arena currently when we have other bigger issues, and are getting nothing in terms of fixes and very little communication about it. I just necro'ed this post the other day when i was raging in chat about how nothing ever gets fixed that is worthwhile. Small stupid things that affect absolutely nothing get fixed in days absolutely broken stuff takes a few weeks. I mean it took over a month and a half to make tk storm proc amps that seems like something that should have been fixed in a week. I don't even file bug reports anymore, because they are either just ignoring it, overloaded with bug reports and don't know what to fix or are incapable of fixing almost anything. I see all the patches with bug fixes but so many are just: okay... thanks for fixing the sound on a mob in a level 30 zone could you like fix something a little more important now? | |} ---- this would be the greatest stimulation for pvp i can think of, and it would fire people up too pvp in there off time decreasing que times and maybe adjusting the economy this is a fantastic idea and a great stimulus that would be HELLA GOOD | |} ----